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trust_no_more |
Apr 23 2007, 12:57 PM
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Paranoid
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QUOTE("Trickster") Eu consider, eu consider... useless. Pentru orice trebuie sa existe o parte opusa... care-i partea opusa a unei linguri? Credeam ca e logico-deductiv ca prin acel orice ma refeream strict la valori morale, iar din cunostintele mele, o lingura nu e o valoare morala, e doar un mijloc pe care noi il folosim atunci cand ne satisfacem una dintre nevoile biologice de baza:hrana! :) QUOTE("Trickster") ar trebui pus dupa niste deductii, nu supozitii, speculatii si pareri. Ce nu o sa neg e ca binele si raul is niste concepte foarte utile, ce o sa neg e ca-s concepte esentiale in descrierea universului... Deductia este o consecinta a unui rationament. In cazul de fata rationamentul referitor la bine si rau, nu poate fi absolutizat, deoarece, prin urmare si fiindca, aceste 2 antinomii: binele si raul sunt supuse relativizarii, in concluzie, sunt filtrate subiectiv, nu pot fi transpuse in plan suigeneris. Daca nu esti de acord cu descrierea universului raportata [si] la bine si rau, atunci de ce nu propui tu o altfel de descriere, cum vezi tu universul descris eliminand cele 2 valori esentiale? QUOTE("Trickster") am ajuns chiar atat de dependenti de propriile noastre definitii incat sa nu mai putem exista fara ele? Sa nu poti face bine fara sa cunosti raul? Pana la un exemplu contradictoriu o sa consider ca a zice ca nu te poti lipsi de concepte gen bine/rau e ca si cum ai zice ca nu poti manca fara furculita si cutit. Cum poti sti ca e bine/bun ceea ce ai facut, daca nu stii cum ar fi fost sa faci altfel, adica altfel=cum? Altfel=rau. Normal ca nu poti sa definesti/sa faci/ceva bine daca nu cunosti si raul. Imi place ca faci analogia conceptelor cu niste instrumente folosite ptr a manca, ceea ce e total eronat. Nu poti compara niste instrumente unanim acceptate de catre toti, ca fiind folosite in a facilita procesul numit:haleala, pardon, mancat, cu niste concepte pur relative si subiective: binele si raul, care sunt inerente fiecarei morale.[morala crestina, morala proprie si personala, morala catolica, morala islamica etc etc ].
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Trickster |
Apr 23 2007, 03:07 PM
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communication impaired
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QUOTE(trust_no_more @ Apr 23 2007, 08:57 PM) Deductia este o consecinta a unui rationament. Intocmai, si tu de ce tragi concluzii? Pareri accept, concluzii numai daca urmeaza un fir logic. Si nu am zis ca nu-s de acord cu descrierea universului prin bine/rau, ci doar ca nu e esentiala... asa, la repezeala, daca vrei alt sistem de valori, poti folosi practicalitatea de exemplu. E practic ceva, nu e practic ceva, etc. QUOTE(trust_no_more @ Apr 23 2007, 08:57 PM) Cum poti sti ca e bine/bun ceea ce ai facut, daca nu stii cum ar fi fost sa faci altfel, adica altfel=cum? Da pai, daca doua lucruri se definesc reciproc atunci is un sistem inchis, poti sa-l potrivesti cum vrei. E ca si cum ai incerca sa definesti ne-alb... poti sa-mi zici ca e vorba de negru? La fel si cu bine/rau, eu zic ca poti gasi o definitie suficienta pentru unul din termeni fara celalalt, dupa care-i poti potrivi orice ca si opus (doar deh, ai de ales din orice e in afara definitiei primului termen). Daca eu iti definesc binele ca ceva facut in folosul si nedauna altuia e o definitie atat de gresita? Nu e in vreo antiteza cu ceva si nici nu ai nevoie de o definitie pentru rau ca sa te tii de ea. Sincer si eu is curios ce-i asa de interesant la rau... probabil tensiunea nascuta din posibilitatea raului face viata mai interesanta, cine stie. Eu imi gasesc destule ocupatii si fara sa ma gandesc cum ar fi sa dau la cineva in cap, sau fara sa ma intreb cum e sa sparg un magazin, dar tot vreau ca toate astea sa fie in urma unui efort constient, fara sa vina cineva sa-si impuna propria moralitate peste a mea (poate asta vroia sa zica si Muza, ma indoiesc ca vrea sa o ia razna prin rai :lol:). Si tot nu stiu de unde ideea de rau=interesant <_<. Ah, si dincolo de toata relativitatea lumii, binele/raul au un fond universal, ca altfel n-ar fi fost bune de chiar nimic. Da, suntem ontopic... L ftw :P
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trust_no_more L Sau Light? Apr 18 2007, 10:21 AM Moonsparkle RE: L Sau Light? Apr 18 2007, 01:39 PM trust_no_more RE: L Sau Light? Apr 18 2007, 03:04 PM Moonsparkle RE: L Sau Light? Apr 18 2007, 03:28 PM trust_no_more RE: L Sau Light? Apr 18 2007, 03:30 PM Moonsparkle RE: L Sau Light? Apr 18 2007, 03:38 PM trust_no_more RE: L Sau Light? Apr 18 2007, 03:41 PM Moonsparkle RE: L Sau Light? Apr 18 2007, 03:48 PM Shinigami Kid RE: L Sau Light? Apr 18 2007, 04:31 PM Kisa RE: L Sau Light? Apr 18 2007, 04:54 PM trust_no_more RE: L Sau Light? Apr 18 2007, 05:03 PM Xristina RE: L Sau Light? Apr 18 2007, 06:30 PM Shinigami Kid RE: L Sau Light? Apr 18 2007, 06:38 PM Trickster RE: L Sau Light? Apr 18 2007, 07:15 PM Shinju RE: L Sau Light? Apr 21 2007, 10:11 PM Shinigami Kid RE: L Sau Light? Apr 22 2007, 03:05 AM Shinju RE: L Sau Light? Apr 22 2007, 01:42 PM Shinigami Kid RE: L Sau Light? Apr 22 2007, 02:20 PM![](style_images/animepower/to_down_pipe.gif) Shinju RE: L Sau Light? Apr 22 2007, 02:45 PM![](style_images/animepower/to_down_pipe.gif) ![](style_images/animepower/spacer.gif) Sasuke_yo203 RE: L Sau Light? Dec 16 2008, 05:10 PM Moonsparkle RE: L Sau Light? Apr 22 2007, 02:32 PM Muza chan RE: L Sau Light? Apr 22 2007, 03:47 PM Moonsparkle RE: L Sau Light? Apr 22 2007, 04:16 PM Muza chan RE: L Sau Light? Apr 22 2007, 04:37 PM Shinigami Kid RE: L Sau Light? Apr 22 2007, 04:40 PM Shinju RE: L Sau Light? Apr 22 2007, 04:50 PM Moonsparkle RE: L Sau Light? Apr 22 2007, 04:51 PM![](style_images/animepower/to_down_pipe.gif) Shinju RE: L Sau Light? Apr 22 2007, 04:57 PM Shinigami Kid RE: L Sau Light? Apr 22 2007, 05:07 PM Moonsparkle RE: L Sau Light? Apr 22 2007, 05:08 PM Shinigami Kid RE: L Sau Light? Apr 22 2007, 05:13 PM Muza chan RE: L Sau Light? Apr 22 2007, 05:36 PM Moonsparkle RE: L Sau Light? Apr 22 2007, 06:12 PM Muza chan RE: L Sau Light? Apr 22 2007, 06:17 PM Moonsparkle RE: L Sau Light? Apr 22 2007, 06:25 PM Muza chan RE: L Sau Light? Apr 22 2007, 07:59 PM Shinigami Kid RE: L Sau Light? Apr 22 2007, 08:11 PM Moonsparkle RE: L Sau Light? Apr 22 2007, 08:41 PM Muza chan RE: L Sau Light? Apr 22 2007, 09:58 PM Anzai RE: L Sau Light? Apr 23 2007, 02:32 AM Muza chan RE: L Sau Light? Apr 23 2007, 08:26 AM Shinju RE: L Sau Light? Apr 23 2007, 09:14 AM Trickster RE: L Sau Light? Apr 23 2007, 10:00 AM Muza chan RE: L Sau Light? Apr 23 2007, 10:35 AM Trickster RE: L Sau Light? Apr 23 2007, 10:46 AM Anzai RE: L Sau Light? Apr 23 2007, 11:01 AM trust_no_more RE: L Sau Light? Apr 23 2007, 11:09 AM Unknown RE: L Sau Light? Apr 23 2007, 11:17 AM Trickster RE: L Sau Light? Apr 23 2007, 11:29 AM Unknown RE: L Sau Light? Apr 23 2007, 12:09 PM Trickster RE: L Sau Light? Apr 23 2007, 12:15 PM![](style_images/animepower/to_down_pipe.gif) Unknown RE: L Sau Light? Apr 23 2007, 02:10 PM Muza chan RE: L Sau Light? Apr 23 2007, 12:26 PM Moonsparkle RE: L Sau Light? Apr 23 2007, 02:32 PM trust_no_more RE: L Sau Light? Apr 23 2007, 02:35 PM Moonsparkle RE: L Sau Light? Apr 23 2007, 02:41 PM trust_no_more RE: L Sau Light? Apr 23 2007, 02:50 PM Muza chan RE: L Sau Light? Apr 23 2007, 03:25 PM Unknown RE: L Sau Light? Apr 23 2007, 03:27 PM trust_no_more RE: L Sau Light? Apr 23 2007, 03:29 PM![](style_images/animepower/to_down_pipe.gif) Trickster RE: L Sau Light? Apr 23 2007, 04:20 PM Unknown RE: L Sau Light? Apr 23 2007, 04:37 PM Shinigami Kid RE: L Sau Light? Apr 23 2007, 04:39 PM trust_no_more RE: L Sau Light? Apr 23 2007, 04:55 PM Moonsparkle RE: L Sau Light? Apr 23 2007, 06:13 PM Shinigami Kid RE: L Sau Light? Apr 23 2007, 08:10 PM Shinju RE: L Sau Light? Apr 23 2007, 09:23 PM trixyl RE: L Sau Light? Apr 25 2007, 08:40 AM Muza chan RE: L Sau Light? Apr 25 2007, 09:14 AM![](style_images/animepower/to_down_pipe.gif) trixyl RE: L Sau Light? Apr 25 2007, 10:21 AM LordMethos RE: L Sau Light? Apr 25 2007, 09:54 AM Shinju RE: L Sau Light? Apr 25 2007, 10:09 AM yozz RE: L Sau Light? Jun 13 2007, 11:17 AM Doxx RE: L Sau Light? Jul 4 2007, 10:53 PM elpreda RE: L Sau Light? Aug 21 2007, 11:09 PM![](style_images/animepower/to_down_pipe.gif) Shinju RE: L Sau Light? Aug 22 2007, 09:49 AM Demon Spirit RE: L Sau Light? Oct 8 2007, 04:12 PM vipe RE: L Sau Light? Oct 9 2007, 02:13 AM miha_the_death RE: L Sau Light? Oct 29 2007, 02:42 PM mistic_angel RE: L Sau Light? Nov 30 2007, 01:55 PM lahlah RE: L Sau Light? May 6 2008, 07:13 PM Julia Joanne Black RE: L Sau Light? May 31 2008, 01:16 PM Demona RE: L Sau Light? Jun 3 2008, 07:11 PM![](style_images/animepower/to_down_pipe.gif) Deus RE: L Sau Light? Jun 3 2008, 07:16 PM Terry_SOAD RE: L Sau Light? Jun 3 2008, 08:24 PM PurpleButterfly RE: L Sau Light? Jun 11 2008, 09:34 PM AngelFay RE: L Sau Light? Jul 6 2008, 12:24 PM Yonzy RE: L Sau Light? Aug 13 2008, 07:16 PM Terry_SOAD RE: L Sau Light? Aug 13 2008, 07:33 PM![](style_images/animepower/to_down_pipe.gif) Yonzy RE: L Sau Light? Aug 13 2008, 07:48 PM Strawberry Ice RE: L Sau Light? Nov 4 2008, 06:27 PM AMICU RE: L Sau Light? Dec 16 2008, 06:34 PM Desire RE: L Sau Light? Dec 21 2008, 10:14 PM Trickster RE: L Sau Light? Dec 24 2008, 01:22 AM HollowPain RE: L Sau Light? Dec 24 2008, 01:30 AM Squad RE: L Sau Light? Aug 5 2009, 08:02 PM kene RE: L Sau Light? Aug 5 2009, 08:56 PM radet92 RE: L Sau Light? Aug 5 2009, 10:55 PM
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