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elpreda: [00:42] in solitude, where we are least alone
StuardLocko: [16:20] sunt singur pe aici?
StuardLocko: [16:20] f
elpreda: [22:40] Truck-kun is on a rampage
elpreda: [20:10] but they did a great job so far, looks like we're getting some good stuff this season as well
elpreda: [20:09] oooh, cand am auzit ca apare Goblin Slayer animat mi-a fost ca o sa sara peste all the nasty can't show this to kids parts
LordPhoenix: [22:39] De acord cu elpreda
elpreda: [07:45] Happy Sugar Life is totally awesome!!!
elpreda: [07:45] m-am ferit sa zic de la inceput dupa ce am fost dezamagit de alte serii, dar avand in vedere ca a trecut deja jumate de sezon
IceJack: [22:48] "cam mort"
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post Mar 20 2013, 11:55 AM
Post #21
cg1700



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QUOTE(elpreda @ Mar 20 2013, 05:24 AM)
Still, now I know for sure that Akane's and the Holy Woman's objective was to save the world since they did fight to protect it, the desire to destroy life itself was specific to Kashima Sakura only.
*



That's not really true.The Akane that was summoned in Moon was not the real Akane, she was just summoned by Kotarou. Of course Kotarou is not going to bring a version of Akane that is insane and that would help Kashima instead.

Also, it's not like Kashima was originally like that. It was stated in Akane's route that she was much nicer when she was young, similar to how Akane is. Which isn't really a surprise seeing as how all Holy Women are supposed to be almost identical because of the whole transcription process that basically takes a girl that is more or less a clean slate and imprints the Holy Woman's personality, intelligence and memories into her. It's just that over the years, the madness of the holy woman finally got to her. And in one of the parallel dimensions the madness drove her so far that she tried to destroy the only hope that life on Earth had. Basically all information from the VN points to the fact that the holy woman is basically an entity that has lived for far too long and seen so many horrible things that it has driven her completely insane and made her want to kill everyone and everything. It has nothing to do with the planet. That is just a pretext.

I'm actually rather curious as to why do you try to cling so hard to the idea that Akane tried to save the world instead of just to kill everyone out of spite even though not even the VN ever tries to show what the Holy Woman does in a positive light?


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post Mar 20 2013, 01:33 PM
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DmonHiro



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Defapt. daca am inteles bine, toate Holy Woman pana la Kashima au fost relativ OK. Dar Kashima era atat de talentata incat a reusit sa descifreze o parte din teoria vietii singura. A obtinut vaste cunostiinte, dar mintea ai nu a putut procesa atat, asa ca a innebunit. La fel cum Koutaru era sa inebuneasca in Moon cand a citit teoria lui Kagari.
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post Mar 20 2013, 02:58 PM
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QUOTE(DmonHiro @ Mar 20 2013, 02:33 PM)
Defapt. daca am inteles bine, toate Holy Woman pana la Kashima au fost relativ OK. Dar Kashima era atat de talentata incat a reusit sa descifreze o parte din teoria vietii singura. A obtinut vaste cunostiinte, dar mintea ai nu a putut procesa atat, asa ca a innebunit.
*


Not exactly. E mentionat in ruta lui Akane atunci cand e povestita istoricul Holy Women-urilor ca datorita tuturor atrocitatilor care pe care le-au suferit de-a lungul timpului si care s-au tot adunat, Holy Women-urile au inceput la un moment dat sa innebuneasca, iar aceasta nebunie s-a propagat la fiecare generatie urmatoare si probabil ca a devenit din ce in ce mai puternica. Asa ca chiar daca Kashima ar fi reusit sa descifreze o parte din teoria vietii ea ra deja sa nebuna in acel moment, iar aceasta dezvaluire pur si simplu i-ar fi impins nebunia si mai departe.


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post Mar 20 2013, 04:36 PM
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QUOTE
Of course Kotarou is not going to bring a version of Akane that is insane and that would help Kashima instead.


Actually they all seemed to have memories from all routes, they were the "summed up" versions, he didn't selectively pick memories and personality traits to bring there. He just tweaked Lucia a bit and only her body.

QUOTE
all Holy Women are supposed to be almost identical because of the whole transcription process that basically takes a girl that is more or less a clean slate and imprints the Holy Woman's personality, intelligence and memories into her.

Nope, the Holy Woman is just a template, not an entire person. It's like a child resembling their parent, it can influence them, but it can't completely overwrite their own will and personality. The transcription only affected damaged brain cells, it didn't change everything. So while they were driven to the edge by an old insane parent whether they actually fell was up to them.
Kashima a ajuns in the end literally cu mintea pe luna. Akane, who had an even newer version of the Holy Woman, managed in the end to recover from insanity.(that is when she managed to live 'till the end)

QUOTE
not even the VN ever tries to show what the Holy Woman does in a positive light?


It does at the end of Akane's route.

QUOTE
Pai, toate creaturile pe care Kashima le trimitea pe luna trebuiau create din ceva, adica din colectia imensa de fosile pe care o avea. Nu avea insa nimic din ce sa creeze un Earth Dragon.

We do know that she had and could control one Earth Dragon at least.


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post Mar 20 2013, 04:50 PM
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QUOTE
The transcription only affected damaged brain cells, it didn't change everything

Yes, but that's why holy women candidates were chosen from girls with severe brain damage, so that they could obtain as much similarity as they could to the previous Holy Woman. The more brain damaged the girl originally was and the less personality she had, the more she would turn out similar to the previus Holy Woman.

QUOTE
We do know that she had and could control one Earth Dragon at least.

That was the only one in existence. The Earth Dragon is supposed to be an ancient Gaia familiar and no one knows anymore how to build another one. Also it takes a huge number of summoners to control even one Earth Dragon.

QUOTE
Akane, who had an even newer version of the Holy Woman, managed in the end to recover from insanity.


Yeah, but that only happened because Kotarou used an extreme form of shock therapy by forcing her to live with the guilt of the horrible things she had done which apparently managed to bring her back to her senses.


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post Mar 20 2013, 05:04 PM
Post #26
elpreda



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QUOTE(cg1700 @ Mar 20 2013, 04:50 PM)
Also it takes a huge number of summoners to control even one Earth Dragon
*


The VN does say that Kashima was capable of controlling the Earth Dragon herself, the multiple summoner method was used by Akane.

QUOTE
Yeah, but that only happened because Kotarou used an extreme form of shock therapy by forcing her to live with the guilt of the horrible things she had done which apparently managed to bring her back to her senses.

Of course she needed outside help to recover, having only the Holy Woman as her buddy wouldn't have helped her so much. You can't ask a cancer patient to get better without treatment. Also, Shizuru managed to get her to her senses as well in Chihaya's route.

QUOTE
The more brain damaged the girl originally was and the less personality she had, the more she would turn out similar to the previus Holy Woman.

Still, not a copy.


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post Mar 20 2013, 05:16 PM
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QUOTE
The VN does say that Kashima was capable of controlling the Earth Dragon herself

Not sure this is true, at least not after Terra.

QUOTE
Also, Shizuru managed to get her to her senses as well in Chihaya's route.

Yeah, but I'm not sure how reliable Chihaya's route actually is. Everything went too well in it just for the sake of getting the best ending possible. Also as I said before, these was the whole salvation not happening which honestly makes no sense to me at all.


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post Mar 20 2013, 11:56 PM
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1. Nu stim cu siguranta ca Earth Dragon din ruta Chihaya era controlat de Kashima. Era doar o presupunere facuta de Guardian.

2. In aceasi ruta, Shizuru i-a sters memoriile lui Akane, deaia si-a revenit. Probabil a sters tot ce avea legatura cu Gaia, inclusiv Holy Woman.
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post Mar 21 2013, 12:29 AM
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QUOTE(DmonHiro @ Mar 21 2013, 12:56 AM)
In aceasi ruta, Shizuru i-a sters memoriile lui Akane, deaia si-a revenit. Probabil a sters tot ce avea legatura cu Gaia, inclusiv Holy Woman.
*


Oh right, of course. That makes sense.


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post Mar 21 2013, 06:42 AM
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QUOTE(DmonHiro @ Mar 20 2013, 11:56 PM)
In aceasi ruta, Shizuru i-a sters memoriile lui Akane, deaia si-a revenit. Probabil a sters tot ce avea legatura cu Gaia, inclusiv Holy Woman.
*


No that definitely did not happen. Shizuru could only affect either living things or familiars, nu corcituri. Nu avea cum sa umble prin creierul lui Akane si chiar daca ar fi putut ar fi lasat-o practic braindead. And no she couldn't eventually learn do it since their powers were based on previous experiences, no one had ever changed a partly familiarized brain before.


Well I finished it at last. I really don't understand the need to change the HUD and voice act Koutarou in the last route. It was also a bit strange to find out he's a raging pedophile, he married 5 children in the other routes. The ending was weird at best, you sacrifice the lives of those 5 in order to go to the Moon and see your old girlfriend on whom you cheated with her twin sister which you eventually killed.....aaaaand you're name is Pochi.....
So the answer was a combination of the 3 ideas: Cause salvation (Kashima) + use of familiar technology (Suzaki) (at this point you have the artificial future from Akane's route) + kill the Key for an incomplete salvation (Guardian).

Fin
Waaaa I hate this word! I think I may hate it more than my alarm tone!


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post Mar 21 2013, 07:41 PM
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QUOTE(elpreda @ Mar 21 2013, 06:42 AM)
No that definitely did not happen. Shizuru could only affect either living things or familiars, nu corcituri. Nu avea cum sa umble prin creierul lui Akane si chiar daca ar fi putut ar fi lasat-o practic braindead. And no she couldn't eventually learn do it since their powers were based on previous experiences, no one had ever changed a partly familiarized brain before.


Cred ca nu ai inteles cum fucntioneaza nici puterea lui Shizuru, nici copierea pentru Holy Woman.

In primul rand, Shizuru nu ar avea nevoie sa umble la partea modificata a creierului lui Akane, pentru ca nu asta era problema in ruta lui Chihaya. Akane inebunise nu din cauza amintirilor lui Kashima, ci din cauza ca Kagari i-a indesat toate imaginile negative ale umanitatii in creier. Shizuru nu a facut altceva decat sa le stearga.

Si cum naiba poti sa spui ca "Shizuru could only affect either living things or familiars, nu corcituri", cand jumatate din ruta lui Shizuru o petreci fara memorie, pentru ca ea ti-a sters-o. In caz ca nu ai tinut minte, Koutarou e jumatate familiar si el.

In al doilea rand, de ce ar fi last-o "braindead" pe Akane daca doar i-a sters memoriile.
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post Mar 21 2013, 09:30 PM
Post #32
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You're not paying attention to details. Partea familiarizata a lui Koutarou e clar delimitata: his right arm and shoulder. There's no reason why Shizuru wouldn't be able to affect his brain. In ruta lui Chihaya cand Koutarou isi face tot corpul o corcitura intre human si familiar Shizuru nu mai poate sa-i faca nimic.

Now in Akane's case her brain nu are o delimitare clara intre normal si familiar si partea familiarizata nu actioneaza ca un folder cu memoriile lui Holy Woman ci indeplineste si normal brain functions. Daca ar folosi vreun fel de familiar poison ca sa elimine the familiarized brain cells ar reduce-o la copilul retardat de dinainte de transcription.
Also there is no specific part of the brain that handles memories, they are spread all over the brain. The transcription repaired the dead cells restoring speech and other problems she had, but the memories of the Holy Woman aren't contained just in the familiar part of the brain just as the rest of her memories aren't contained only in normal part of the brain.

Point is Shizuru can't create a drug that affect both living things and familiars at the same time, she can't mess around Akane's brain.


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post Mar 21 2013, 09:38 PM
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Tu doar presupui ca Shizuru nu poate sa o afecteze pe Akane.
Shizuru a spus ca i-a sters "amintirile rele", si ca se reface. Adevarat, nu a spus ca a revenit la moral, a spus doar ca isi revine. Nu stim ce inseamna asta, e posibil chiar sa fi ramas cu problemele din copilarie... oricare ar fi fost ele, pentru ca nici asta nu stim. Dar a fost destul de clar ca Shizuru i-a sters memoriile.
In plus, Shizuru are DOUA puteri, la fel ca Lucia si Koutaro. Puterea de a sterge memoriile nu are absolut nici o legatura cu abilitatea de a creea substante in corpul ei.
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post Mar 21 2013, 11:34 PM
Post #34
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QUOTE
Tu doar presupui ca Shizuru nu poate sa o afecteze pe Akane.

Nu e o presupunere, asa este si am explicat de ce.

QUOTE
Dar a fost destul de clar ca Shizuru i-a sters memoriile.

Shizuru's power is not the only thing that can meddle with someone mind. Maybe she was put in a counseling program. Trying to destroy humanity is bad mkay...

QUOTE
In plus, Shizuru are DOUA puteri, la fel ca Lucia si Koutaro. Puterea de a sterge memoriile nu are absolut nici o legatura cu abilitatea de a creea substante in corpul ei.

So you're saying she had a power that could create all sorts mind altering drugs, but she also had another power that did the exact same thing in a different manner. I don't know how you came to this conclusion, nu spune niciodata in VN ca Shizuru ar avea 2 puteri. She had an ability with many uses, including severing synapses.


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post Mar 21 2013, 11:37 PM
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Pentru numele lui Dumnezeu.... o sa inregistrez partea aia si o postez pe Youtube ca sa mai citesti odata.

Si da, Shizuru are doua puteri, la fel ca Lucia si Kotarou.

" a power that could create all sorts mind altering drugs"
Uhm... despre ce vorbesti? Shizuru putea creea diverse substante in interiorul corpului ei, dar alea aveau doar efect fizic. Putea vindeca rani, pana la un punct. Putea sa-si mareasca forta fizica si timpul de reactie. Putea sa paralizeze oameni sau monstri. Nu are nici o lecatura cu cealalta putere. Intra la Memory, si citeste ce scrie la Nakatsu Shizuru. Screw that, iti postez eu.

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post Mar 21 2013, 11:55 PM
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elpreda



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Yes, I have read that before posting to be sure I'm not wrong. If you still think she could produce a poison to paralyze motor functions in the nervous system, but she was severing synapses with a completely different power, not by using a drug then I have nothing more to say on this matter.


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