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> Efecte Speciale in Anime si Efecte Speciale in Filme


Anonymous
post Jan 19 2004, 10:14 PM
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Nimeni nu se plange ca un Anime se vede bine, ca are grafica facuta pe calculator ca are ce s-ar numi 'efecte speciale'. Din contra, multi se plang daca un Anime e vechi, se vede prost si 'demodat'. Eu numesc 'efecte speciale' la Anime acele lucruri care nu ar fi avut cum sa le reprezinte intr-un film, decat cu costuri imense.

Culmea este atunci ca aceleasi persoane care zic asta zic despre efecte in filme ca "efectele fac filmul", ceva ce nu s-ar zice niciodata despre un Anime ca l-ar face de rusine.

Acume 3 decenii parintii nostri au fost uimiti cu seria legendara Star Wars. Au facut aceea serie cu efecte noi si nemaivazute. Aceste efecte, revolutionare atunci, au putut da filmului un farmec aparte, nu zice nimeni si nici nu a zis atunci ca 'efectele fac filmul'.

Iata de ce ma supar acum pentru ca in zilele noastre, o trilogie noua, practic pentru generatia noastra va fi ce a fost Star Wars pentru generatia parintilor, se zice ca 'efectele fac filmul'. Filmul la care ma refer este Matrix Reloaded, si toata trilogia Matrix.

Multi nu stiu, dar Matrix a fost conceput ca un Anime, dar creatorii au avut
un moment de geniu si au hotarat sa-l faca film. De ce? Pentru ca nu ar fi avut acelasi impact ca Anime cum a avut ca film.

Povestea se repeta, efecte speciale care nu s-au mai vazut. Dar care-i treaba cu aceste efecte?

In Star Wars nu aveau cum sa reprezinte bataile cu light saber daca nu foloseau neone si o coregrafie buna, nu aveau cum sa reprezinte luptele interstelare fara nave, nu aveau cum sa ii da trilogiei acel FARMEC fara efecte.

In Matrix, cum puteau ei oare sa arate cat de puternici erau cei cu mintea eliberata de Matrix sau Agentii care erau deosebit de puternici. Cum puteau oare arata ca erau in stare sa se fereasca de gloante? Una este sa vezi intr-un film ca se da la o parte in real time si se zice ca s-a ferit de gloante. Alta este cand vezi si glontul pe imagine.

Una e sa vezi cum da in directia generala a unui perete, alta e sa vezi slow motion cum il sparge cu mana.

Fara aceste efecte filmul ar fi fost inca un film banal de bataie facut de Jon Woo precum Specialistul unde se filmeaza totul in Slow Motion si dupa aia se arata scena cu fast forward, la fel si Jackie Chan.


Efectele conteaza, dar nu sunt totul. Numai un film cu un script de Anime, care a vrut sa transmita lumii intregi (lucru mai greu cu Anime) fel de fel de mesaje, chiar si unele ezoterice, sa faca un impact, numai Matrix a putut.


Clona lui Matrix este The One, cu Jet Li. Desi il respect pe Jet Li ca face totul 'pe viu' si nu apeleaza la trucuri ca Jackie Chan, filmul a fost mediocru si slab, cu tot cu fazele lui cu incetinitorul a la Matrix. A avut aceleasi efecte speciale, dar a fost jaf.


De aceea vreau sa fac pe lume sa inteleaga: efectele speciale nu fac filmul, il completeaza. Fara un scenariu bun, actori buni, o atmosfera aparte, filmul nu merita doi bani cu efecte cu tot. Si tocmai v-am explicat de ce este necesar sa vedeti acele efecte, acele lucruri care le treceti cu vederea in Anime, dar sariti atat de usor sa criticati la un film.

Fara efecte ce faceau? Trebuiau sa construiasca roboti 'actori' ca sa joace in film? Trebuiau sa 'trezeasca' puteri psihice ascune in fiinta umana? Trebuiau sa se duca in desert, sa construiasca un oras ruina si sa intuneceasca cerul?

Vi se par solutii practice?

Cand vedeti aceste lucruri in Anime e una, cand vezi in film si pare atat de real incat zici ca se poate chiar intampla, e alta. Haideti sa nu mai criticam cinematografia care incearca sa ne uimeasca asa cum ne uimeste un Anime bun, mai ales cand reusesc, chiar daca au folosit "efecte speciale".
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Kataracta
post Jan 19 2004, 10:14 PM
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Eu unul sunt de parere ca efectele speciale completeaza. Eu unul m-am uitat atat la starwars cat si la matrix pentru poveste. Adica le-am vazut imediat cum au aparut, si nu se vedeau sau auzeau chiar asa de bine. Era indeajuns ca sa inteleg lucurile mai importante. Si nici nu ma plang de un anime ca e vechi. Daca imi place povestea e tot ce imi trebuie. Binenteles ca exista o limita la grafica, nu accept chiar orice.

Si cine spune ca efectele fac filmul eu ii zic sa se caute pe net tot felul de demouri de la 3ds Max si sa se uite la ele. Dar cred ca si alea au o oarecare poveste
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bogdragon
post Jan 19 2004, 10:14 PM
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Eu unul fac parte din acea categorie ce crede ca animeurile au de pierdut din cauza folosiri calculatoarelor. Adica eu ma plang cand un anime "se vede bine".
Din 1990 pana in 2000 au aparut o groaza de filme bune ce au definit intr-o buna masura notiunea de anime. Cand vezi o animatie bine realizata si sti ca este facuta de mana, pictata de mana, atunci te minunezi. Cand in schimb vezi o animatie pictata pa calculator, nu ti se mai pare nimic extraordinar la ea (doar e normal ca sa arate bine, dai valoarea RGB si gata ai obtinut exact aceasi culoare).
Din toate filmele aparute in generatia noua nu cred ca sunt trei care sa ma impresioneze.
Acel stil de a desena (din Tenchi Muyo, Escaflowne, Neon Genesis Evangelion sau Loddos War) este apus. O generatie de anime a murit. Asa cum ea omora generatia '75-'88 asa a fost si ea omorata de o generatie mai noua, generatia computerizata. Pana la urma tine de evolutia anime, acea caracteristica intrinseca ce ii confera posibilitatea de a se adapta la cerintele pietii, de a experimenta noi tehnici de desen si animatie.
Totul insa este subiectiv, eu unul am crescut dorindu-mi sa vad filmele ce le tot zaream pe Manga-Zone. Acum am ajuns la un stadiu in care le-am vazut pe toate, nu mai am nimic ce as dori neaparat sa vad. Astfel noua generatie nu ma atrage deloc. Cum spunea cineva pe net, toate animeurile le compar cu filmele de succes din epoca mea de aur a animatiei. Ma simt ca un batran ce isi aduce aminte de tinerete, dorindu-si sa mai simta o data vraja acelor vremuri, doar odata...
Si cu toate aceste parca merita sa astepti, nu se stie niciodata cand va aparea un nou Neon Genesis Evangelion sau un Ghost in the shell, ce va face sa te minunezi sa sa exclami Uaaau!!!
Este o problema departe de a fi rezolvata, nici eu nu ma hotarasc ce drum sa iau, sunt impartit in doua intre vechi si nou, intre animeul meu de suflet si promisiuea acelor ce au sa vina.
Anime a murit, traiasca anime.

Si Lother, scuze pentu subiectul un pic of topic.



P.S.>Dragonul se retrage pentru asi aduna gandurile, sa contempleze la ce a fost si la ce o sa fie. Sa ne auzim pe viitor, poate mai intelepti poate mai entuziasti, poate deloc.
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Diana
post Jan 19 2004, 10:14 PM
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Eu cred ca efectele speciale din Matrix n-ar fi fost nimic fara "geniala" idee pe care este bazat filmul. Imi aduc aminte prima data cand am vazut Matrix, dupa ce o buna bucata de vreme m-am intrebat unde vor sa ajunga, cand am aflat "ce este Matrix" si au aparut imaginile cu campul de oameni, am ramas cu gura cascata (la propriu). Ideea m-a surprins ea insasi, iar modul in care a fost realizat a dat un plus. Matrix a fost facut film deoarece sunt mult mai multi amatori de film decat de anime, impactul a fost mult mai profund.
In privinta graficii in anime-uri....uneori ma deranjeaza ca personajele sunt prea perfecte, parca prea putin umane ca aparenta. Si ceva care se refera la animatie in general....am vazut cateva documentare despre cum au fost facute primele filme disney ... aia era arta, acum animatia este stiinta, logica, si mai putin suflet...Eu cel putin nu pot sa uit dansul lui Mowgli si Baloo, sau felul in care se miscau personajele din Frumoasa si bestia .. ala era balet, poezie curata
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Scorpio
post Jan 19 2004, 10:14 PM
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Corect. Efectele nu fac filmul. Desi multi se uita la Matrix pt. efecte nu pt. poveste, care mi se pare geniala si care a revolutionat atat arta filmului cat si gandirea oamenilor. Ce-i drept, a zis si Lother, daca Matrix n-avea efectele astea speciale era nasol rau tare de tot. Exact cum la jocurile inspirate de film(Max Payne si Enter the Matrix) fazele slow fac totul, pt. ca in lipsa lor ar fi fost nasoale rau de tot. De fapt Matrix e un film efect special.

Mie personal imi place la nebunie seria Star Wars, desi nici pana in ziua de azi n-am inteles de ce a pornit cu episodul 4 si primele 3 se fac acuma. Ce-i drept nici SW fara efecte nu se putea, dar oricum e un SF pur sange si la SF-uri n-ai cum sa nu ai efecte.

Ce mi-a placut mie acuma este ca la Matrix Reloded, ca sa intelegi tot filmul trebuie sa joci si jocul, iar Animatrix iti da info despre inceputurile Matricei, chesti care nu le gasesti in primul film asa de dezvoltate.

La filme si jocuri efectele conteaza mai mult decat la anime pt:
- au o audienta mai mare
- cei care vad/joaca sunt interesati de eye candy
- producatori stiu ca asta se cere
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cipiamon
post Jan 19 2004, 10:14 PM
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matrix, este un pas important in istoria cinematografului, pentru ca oamenii incep sa-si dea seama de ce plac un film. Paradoxal al doilea (reloaded) are de 100 de ori cred mai multe efecte speciale, si tot primul este mai amintit. Asta e o dovada clara si indubitabila ca efectele speciale folosite fara sens nu au nici un rost.
Eu sunt student la regie si cunosc foarte multi studenti, si chiar regizori care au gandirea urmatoare: "Domne stai aici rezemat de zidul asta, si stai cu capul intr-o parte ca da bine". Ei sunt acea categorie de artisti ce dau artei un nume gresit.

Este foarte riscant sa faci animatie (nu ma refer la spectatorii japonezi) pentru ca nu se vinde, oricat de serios ai realiza-o, asta pentru ca piata americana de media, care este enorma de altfel, a obisnuit oamenii cu desene pentru copii, fiindca ei nu pot face decat niste caricaturi miscatoare, in care decat copii pot crede.

Si astfel daca eu realizez un film serios in animatie, spectatorii or sa zica "aaah... desene animate, ce-s copil" si astfel nu am spectatori decat copii.

Tipologia de film american se bazeaza pe sperierea spectatorului prin ironie, tine minte asta si analizand orice film american vei observa acest lucru. Asta nu e arta.

....mai vorbim
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APoKLips
post Jan 19 2004, 10:14 PM
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Man-ilor...
Da...este el putzin aiurea, dar... Just think about Neo's discusion cu Sursa ( the fisrt AI)

Are el mai multe efecte ca idei... dar mie mi-a placut ... feeling-ul parerea mea este, din alt puct de vedere aici, tot asa de mare ca in primul. Merita primul Matrix o continuare( 2,3).

Acuma... let's see the Revolutions... si vom vedea atunci daca o meritat intr-adevar sau nu.


"-What is the mater?
-Something is wrong... i... i can feel them... "


Am sa va dau si postarea mea de pe CineMagia asupra subiectului si va rog sa intelegi partea buna de idee din post: postarea aceasta se refera strict la discutiile aberante de acolo , si in parte la asta de aici cu mentiunea
QUOTE
\"Parerea ta despre Matrix - Reincarcat
Pentru a evita aparitia pe site a unor texte obscene, fiecare mesaj trimis trebuie citit si aprobat de catre un moderator al site-ului.
Va multumim pentru intelegere!\"
Asta inseamna ca inca acolo nu e aparut postingul

QUOTE
'Grrrrrrrrr. n-am citit  toate cele enshpe mii de postinguri de aici, si sa va zic ceva... romani dragi... voi habar n-aveti ce inseamna o ideea buna, speciala, si profunda, ca sa nu mai zic originala( nu ma refer la toti o data - dar va voi critica pe toti)
Am observat ca exista cei care le place si cei care nu le place Matrix-ul.
Pai bine mai omenilor, lasati-ma sa va zic ceva: celor care le place , din cate am inteles o fac pt ca are efecte misto, moderne etc, iar celorlalti care nu le place, este ca nu au rabdare sa caute intelesurile din el, partea lui de suflet.
Ma enerveaza romanii, sincer, ca nu stiu sa urmareasca un film ca sa il inteleaga, desi multe sunt originale si foarte bine puse la punct cu story-ul.
Matrix e superb continuat in Reloaded, si da raspunsirile la unele idei , dar tot atata de bine naste alte intrebari, si concepte, sau face o evolutie a conceptelor aparute anterior. Exista multe detalii minore, care sunt foarte usor de trecut cu vederea, dar acestea fac deliciul unui film.
Va sfatuiesc sa urmaritzi detaliile(nu doar vizuale), si apoi sa va ganditi macar 5 minute cel putin la filmul pe care tocmai l-ati vizionat. Va garantez ca am urmarit multe filme bune, si neintelese in profunzime de oameni precum voi, si sunt un om care gasesc usor partea interesanta in filme, ca altfel nu scriam nimica aici pe forumul acesta.


Cei ce se bazeaza pe un singur gen de filme  mi se pare ca au ochelari de cal si sunt slabi din punct de vedere al conceptelor. Oameni buni, daca si LOTR(Lord of the rings) vi se pare aiureala, atunci mergeti la teatru de papusi, dar poate ca... si acolo e pe complex pentru voi.


PS: Daca am parut deplasat, se poate si asta, dar un film nu e doar efecte speciale si o idee de baza. De obicei e un story bine pus la punct, care cel putin la Matrix am gasit nenumarate intelesuri si nu am sa stau sa vi le explic pentru ca sunt destule, si pentru ca sunt profunde, discutati si voi despre ceva anume din Matrix, nu la general, sa vedeti ca poate se mai lumineaza careva pe aici asupra filmelor, si nu  doar asupra Matrix-ului\"



PS: este replica mea, data celor de pe CineMagia si imi asum cuvintele, si nu o consider ofensatoare, ci doar iluminanta, chiar daca pe un ton acut. Aici nu poate fi vorba de lipasa de intelegere, ca doar lumea de aici vede anime.
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Scorpio
post Jan 19 2004, 10:14 PM
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Bravo Apok!!! Mi-a placut partrea cu
QUOTE
atunci mergeti la teatru de papusi, dar poate ca... si acolo e pe complex pentru voi.


:D :D :D

Parca te-ai fi luat dupa mine :D . Acuma chiar sunt curios daca cineva de aici se va lua de tine. Sunt foarte curios
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cipiamon
post Jan 19 2004, 10:14 PM
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APoKLips, partea proasta la reloaded este ca nu aduce o poveste pe care sa o transpuna bine pe ecran, dar asta nu impiedica pe spectator sa indrageasca filmul. Se vede ca parerea ta e subiectiva.
Se putea face in acelasi buget, chiar cu unul mai mic, mult mai bine, daca nu iei in considerare parerea mea du-te si vezi parerile criticilor despre acest film. Are partile lui bune si partile lui proaste.
Pana la coada ce a adus nou? filozfii de 3 lei? niste personaje indesate cu bocancul in scenariu. Pe mine personal m-a dezamagit pentru ca ma astep tam la mai mult. A avut destule elemente sa spun ca este un film bun si in acelasi timp foarte multe elemente care ma faca sa-l consider slab.
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APoKLips
post Jan 19 2004, 10:14 PM
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Subiectiv...sunt, dar mie imi e de ajuns o singura idee buna, transpusa in imagini, chiar si cu efecte putine sau deloc, care daca este buna, si nu de doi lei cum zici tu Cipiamon. Este un film cu un mesaj reusit. Filmele trebuie sa dea un mesaj.
Mie mi se pare destul de complexa actiunea, si itzi garantez ca am urmarit fiecare detaliu, absolut tot, si pare sec Reloaded-ul, dar cum ar fi oare in realitate daca intr-adevar asa s-ar intampla?!. Ce mai mult ?! Este pur si simplu o continuare a ceea ce s-a intamplat in primul Matrix, si gandul spectatorului trebuie sa creasca valoarea unui film. O scanateie , apoi o flama, si in cele din urma un infern de foc... asta e ce s-a intamplat in mintea mea, si itzi spun drept, ca 50% din ce s-a intamplat mi-am imaginat ca va fi asa, si tot nu am fost dezamagit .Dupa cum am mai spus, nu efectele tre sa te atraga la un film, nici povestea lui, ci detaliile acelea marunte, care conteaza, ideile micute care scapa la prima vedere, si care sunt atat de simple, ca te infioara.
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cipiamon
post Jan 19 2004, 10:14 PM
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detaliile? heh
mesaju filmului conteaza, si cat de mult te face sa crezi in el.
Primul personal mi-a lasat imaginatia sa lucreze, al doilea decat ochii, too bad. Era de asteptat dealtfel.
Cum s-or fi gandit... "ma deci fii atent, facem Matrix 2 , bun si cum facem, ah... e simplu, efecte si bagam niste faze dalea de filozofia sa-i lasam pe oameni sa gandeasca, chiar daca nu or sa inteleaga in totalitate (si la ghost in the shell oamenii intleg extrem de greu ce dedesubturile ..) si am o idee hai sa bagam si niste personaje noi, vedem noi, cum ii legam de poveste, aaaa si era sa uit, femei, dar cum sa le bagam peastea, lasa ma ca gasim noi... asta e simplu.... " si cam asa trebuie sa fi sunat dialogul dintre producator si regizor.
Dar sa nu ma intelegi gresit nu mi-a parut rau deloc ca am dat banii la film... chiar m-am bucurat foarte mult sa-l vad si mi-a lasat un gust placut, numai ca ma asteptam la mai mult.
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Anonymous
post Jan 19 2004, 10:14 PM
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Cipiamon, iar incepi sa ma oftici, ultima oara cand m-ai ofticat era atunci cand ai zis ca am numai gunoaie in colectia mea de Anime.

Oameni buni, nu-l credeti, n-are rost sa incerci sa-l convingi de nimic. El scoate adevarate perle pe gura, din alea care ti se urca la cap. El e omul care n-are nevoie decat sa vada un singur episod ca sa judece un serial intreg de Anime vazand un singur episod, si nu neaparat primul.

Daca ar fi vazut el Matrix Revisited, cum s-a facut filmul (ca doar e la Regie), si-ar fi dat seama ca scriptul a fost gata de dinainte de primul film si scriptul pt trilogia intreaga este foarte detaliata si facuta de Warsbaski brothers.

Asa ca el se inseala amarnic cu fazele "hai sa, hai sa" caci fratii respectivi au directat filmele si au devenit directori dupa hitul lor, Bound.

Dar unii, chiar daca invata si lucreaza in acest domeniu al mediei, tot nu stiu anumite chestii. Mai ales care imi zic mie ca majoritatea din tot ce am eu Anime sunt "GUNOAIE".

O sa ziceti ca ma oftic degeaba, nu-i asa, nu-l sufar pe asta cu fazele astea, si nici voi nu trebuie sa-l suferiti.
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Diana
post Jan 19 2004, 10:14 PM
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Lother, mai incetisor si exprima-te ceva mai subtil. Ai cam exagerat cu atacul la persoana.

Iar Matrix-ul Reincarcat (Titlul oficial romanesc :) inca ma amuza traducerea) cred ca face trecerea la partea a 3-a care va lamuri mai multe (dar in care n-am nici cea mai vaga idee ce va fi). Nu cred ca bucatile alea de "must be in a movie" pe care le-a enumerat Cipiamon au fost de ajuns sa apara Martix...asta a fost planificat in amanunt..fiecare replica+implicatiile ei...gandite si razgandite..abia la a doua vizionare prinzi tot..ca la prima eu am fost atenta mai mult la efecte :oops:
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Urfe
post Jan 19 2004, 10:14 PM
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Nici mie nu mi s-a parut nu stiu ce Matrix Reloaded.. au trecut bine de introducere (ceea ce mi se pare ca este primul Matrix..). La povestea de aici, fie ca au scris-o inainte sau dupa, m-am plictisit.. iar replicilr lor 'filosofice' nu mi se par decat ornamente..

Lother, deci altii nu au dreptul la propria lor opinie?
Cum poti fi atat de vulgar? Spun sincer, nu credeam ca poti spune chiar asa ceva. Daca nu spunea ca ai in colectie gunoaie (nu, ai si capodopere. Stie toata lumea... ), ai mai fi fost atat de dur? Nu.. deci unde iti este obiectivismul? Te rog, renunta la modul asta de exprimare.
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Scorpio
post Jan 19 2004, 10:14 PM
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Mie unul mi-a placut, dar sunt de acord cu Urfe. In asa hal nu se vorbeste pe forum. Deci Lother nu te lua de alti cand tu faci la fel. Daca erai cumpatat si gandeai la rece, cum mi-ai propus tu mie, puteai sa gasesti un mod elevat de a vorbi.

Pai daca ma iau dupa reactia, eu ar fi trebuit sa fac la fel la modul in care tu te-ai luat de mine, dar n-am facut-o. Deci.... te las pe tine sa treagi concluziile.
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cipiamon
post Jan 19 2004, 10:14 PM
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foarte bine ce te-ai descarcat, eram sigur ca esti suparat :D
stiam foarte bine ce anime-uri aveai, si nu ti-am zis ca sunt gunoaie (din cate i-mi aduc aminte) sau poate m-am referit sa nu strangi toate gunoaiele de rm-uri ceva de genul asta. Dar am avut noi mai de mult o discutie pe tema cantitate vs calitate. Dar te cunosc ce fel de om iesti si i-mi iesti simpatic, m-ai impresionat atunci cand mi-ai dat N64 cu zelda si ma cunosteai de cateva minute.
Poate ca si eu sunt cam acid uneori dar nici tu nu esti un sfant :lol:

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APoKLips
post Jan 19 2004, 10:14 PM
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Acesta este citat de pe CineMagia.ro ala Lady Skar. Sper sa reusiti sa extrageti ideea despre matrix despre efecte pe care o am si eu, restul ideeilor din film le-am inteles pe aproape toate, doar atat ca nu am bagat de seama.


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Nu stiu pe cati intereseaza dar pe mine chiar m-au ajutat dar m-au ametit si mai mult explicatiile astea. Sunt in enlgeza, asa ca , bare with me:


The Matrix Reloaded - Explained...
Zion is a program, just like the Matrix. How is Neo able to figure out that he is able to stop the sentinels in Zion near the end of the film? The spoon given to him earlier. It had obviously been bent loads, but how outside the Matrix?? This gave Neo the inspiration and the understanding that Zion is still a matrix.


The One explained
\"The One\" is a program, but has to be \"attached\" to someone in the Matrix. So Mr. Anderson got it in the 6th version of the Matrix. Then \"The One\" program's purpose is to allow Zion to be destroyed then to rebuild it. The reason for this is because of anomalies - the 1% of humans that don't accept the Matrix. These are all brought out of the Matrix program and into the Zion program by the \"Morpheus\" program and other similar \"ship captain\" programs. Then once all the anomalies are out of the Matrix (and in Zion), that is the time for Zion to be destroyed, thus killing all the anomalies off. The Matrix is then upgraded, thus creating the next version of the Matrix, but Zion must be rebuilt so that the next lot of anomalies can be brought out again so that they can be destroyed. This is the feedback-loop, and is the reason to retain a handful of people so that Zion can be rebuilt. So this is why Neo said the prophecy was a lie - the One's purpose was not to end the war as the prophecy stated.

Unfortunately, \"The One\" program must be re-used each time, or copied, so it can be \"attached\" to a new anomaly inside the Matrix. So what happens to the old \"The One\" program? It faces deletion, and as the Oracle explained, it goes into exile instead, just like the French bloke (the Merovingian) did. He was the first One (probably from the second version of the Matrix), and once he fulfilled his duty, he became an exile program and \"abdicated\" his \"Oneness\" by choosing Persephone and power. This is evident in the bogs when Persephone asks Neo to kiss her. She says she wants him to kiss her so she can feel what it is like again to be kissed by something close to human, just like the Merovingian used to be. Then she says to Trinity that she envies her, but that these things are not meant to last. So the Merovingian used to be just like Neo - a One - thus proving further the feedback-loop explained earlier.


The correct door in the Architect's room
Now there are two possibilities here:

1. All the previous One's chose the right door allowing a \"temporary dissemination\" of their code into the Matrix (i.e., the code they \"carry\" thus indicating Neo is indeed human), then he must select (unplug) 23 people from the Matrix to rebuild Zion. This takes away the possibility that stories from previous rebuilds of Zion will be carried through. But Morpheus indicated in the first Matrix that this is the case anyway. He said, \"there was a man born inside, able to change things, it was he who freed the first of us,\" - basically the One previous to Neo. And this proves that the previous One chose the right door also. Neo's purpose is also to choose the right door, but he does not because he faces deletion afterwards and has the choice of going into exile - programs choosing to go into exile is the one thing that can't be accounted for in program parameters. Thus, he chooses the left
door instead this time. How was Neo able to choose the other door? Because of his extreme willpower? - Even the Architect
indicated that he'd noticed this - \"Interesting. That was quicker than the others.\" Or more likely, because the Oracle upgraded his coding with the candy on the park bench. Thecandy/cookie was a method to change the One's program. She said he has made a believer out of her - this is quite human-like and perhaps the previous One's didn't accept the upgrade candy, now she has hope... hope that Neo will finally choose the other door.

2. All the previous One's chose the left door, saving Trinity and letting Zion fall. So this time is no different. But the Architect does say, \"You are here because Zion is about to be destroyed. Its every living inhabitant terminated, its entire existence eradicated,\" and also, \"this will be the sixth time we have destroyed it, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it,\" - assuming the Architect isn't lying, then they have already destroyed Zion (i.e., Zion has fallen) five times - i.e., the result of going through the left door.

Morpheus and Trinity are programs.
Morpheus's purpose was to find the One and deliver him to the Architect. Trinity's purpose is to control the One by getting in love with him. Trinity is supposed to be the mother of the new One every time the Matrix is Reloaded. That's why the sex scene was so important and why she was named Trinity.

The Architect says, \"she is going to die, and there is nothing that you can do to stop it.\" He was correct though because she
did die just like Neo did in the first Matrix (Oracle said he or Morpheus would, and she didn't lie, but he came back to life). Trinity dies, but comes back to life (we are using medical definition of death in all this of course!).

The Architect has already laid down an ultimatum for
Neo choosing the left door:

The Architect - \"Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash killing everyone connected to the matrix, which coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire human race.\"

Neo - \"You won't let it happen, you can't. You need human beings to survive.\"

The Architect - \"There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept. However, the relevant issue is whether or not you are
ready to accept the responsibility for the death of every human being in this world.\"

Looking at this further, the Architect does say \"coupled\" with the extermination of Zion will the human race be exterminated. So he says everyone connected to the Matrix will die, but if Zion is not exterminated, the human race will not necessarily die. Also, there is likely to be a time-window between not going through the right door, and the cataclysmic crash, thus allowing Neo to unplug as many as possible from the Matrix, then those people won't die. This will be the start of the next Zion. As for the Matrix, a cataclysmic crash doesn't mean the end of the Matrix - just needs rebooting or reloading!


Agent Smith explained
Agent Smith is the only \"human\" in this world. He's the one spreading himself like a virus replicating himself over and over until the Matrix will finally get overloaded and fail. Smith is the one who wants to get out of the Matrix for good. He said so in the first Matrix, \"I must get out of here, I must get free! And in this mind, is the key,\" squeezing Morpheus's temples, \"my key! Once Zion is destroyed, there is no need for me to be here!\" Smith knows that by killing Neo he can escape the Matrix because Neo is the key to resetting the Matrix, or to shut it off. It was originally killing Neo (in the first Matrix) that allowed Smith to become powerful (cloning ability) - so killing Neo again will allow him to gain Neo's powers completely, and thus gain the power to shut down the Matrix.

So where the hell did Smith come from if he wants to destroy the Matrix? He's obviously not meant to be there - he's a computer virus as he has every characteristic of a virus - he multiplies and spreads and infects (and emulates) other programs like one. He is exactly as he described humans at the end of the first Matrix - \"You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to anotherarea. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus.\" But who put him there? This will only be revealed in Revolutions(Revelations?) I guess - but I'm betting on humans in the real real world, i.e., outside of Zion and the Matrix. They're at war with the machines and trying to destroy them by infecting them with this virus - Agent Smith. So the irony with this theory is that Agent Smith represents the human race!! Neo represents the machines! Agent Smith says to Neo just after he's seen the Oracle that he became free when Neo destroyed him in the first Matrix (remember when Neo entered his body and exploded him from inside out) - as a virus, Smith has the ability to \"inherit\" other programs' abilities and thus inherited some of Neo's.


The anomaly explained
The anomaly is all the humans that do not accept the Matrix. The Architect says \"Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomaly, which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden to sedulously avoid it, it is not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control.\" This includes Neo, but Neo's Matrix avatar is attached with the One program so that he can follow his purpose as explained earlier under \"The One explained\".

However, he is also supposed to protect himself and destroy anything that gets in his way - i.e., Agent Smith - so that he may fulfil his purpose. Further proving Neo - and other non-accepters of the Matrix - are the anomaly, the Architect says, \"Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the matrix.\" The clue here is Neo's program name - \"The One\". Take one-third for example. 1 over 3 is 0.33333 recurring. A computer cannot deal with recurring numbers, so must accept a limit, let's say 0.33333 for argument's sake. Multiply by 3, you get 0.99999 - never 1.00000, where has the \"remainder\" 0.00001 (One) gone? This is the limitation of computers, this is the mathematical imprecision inherent in programming (of the Matrix) and the eventuality of the One anomaly unable to be eliminated.


What is the equation then?
Not sure, but it definitely involves pi. The Keymaker refers to the window of time to open the door to the mainframe as 314 seconds. 3.14 is pi to three sig. figs., or the number of radians in half a circle. Half a circle is like the cross-section of a womb, similar to the alcove of Neo and Trinity's love scene - conceiving the next One? \"NEO\", incidently, is an anagram of \"ONE\". Trinity and Neo - one on one; a choice - one or one. Leads us to 101. \"101\" is mentioned numerous times in Matrix 1 and Reloaded. Neo's room at the beginning, Merovingian is on the 101st floor, the 101 freeway of the car chase in Reloaded, then when Trinity is hacking into the power plant system, she resets the password to Z10N0101. Freaky. Indicates that she is a program because that's not some random password she's put in. 101 is binary for 5, which in zero-based binary counting: 000 is 1, 001, is 2, 010 is 3, 011 is 4, 100 is 5, 101 is 6 - And this is the 6th version of the Matrix! Then there's 303. 303 is the room Neo got shot in Matrix 1, the Oracle lives in room 303, it's also the hotel room number Trinity is in in Matrix 1 and it's seen at the end when Neo fights the Agents and Smith and begins to literally see the code that makes up the Matrix. 101 x 3 = 303, a trilogy, 3 + 0 + 3 = 6 = the 6th Matrix. Trinity means 3.


Who is the \"mother\" that the Architect refers to?
The Architect says, \"Please,\" in an almost disapproving sense when Neo suggests the Oracle, but does not reveal who it really is or even directly that Neo is wrong. The architect was the one who created the Matrix; the co-creator is neither Persephone nor the Oracle. Both of them are only programs that have a purpose in the matrix, just like the rest. TheArchitect is in charge of the Matrix world and the co-creator is in charge of Zion. She has almost the same age as the Architect. Therefore, that woman is the Head Counsellor, the only woman of importance that lives in Zion and the one who asked for the two captains to volunteer at the council meeting. She's the one who knew all along about the Matrix. She was the one who told Zion's Defence Minister to cool off and to let Morpheus do his work so things could go as planned. Or alternatively, it could indeed be the Oracle. She is the only program that truly wants humans to have a free choice... at the same time, she sees the future, because she knows the program code - she is like God - which is why Seraph protects her - see \"Who is Seraph?\" below.


What's so special about Neo's avatar?
Neo is a skilled hacker, and his avatar in the Matrix is based on the person that founded the AI of the original machines that eventually took over the world... How? Take a look at the disc he gave to the bloke at the door at the beginning of Matrix 1. It said \"DISC AI\" on it. The hollowed book Neo takes the disc out of is \"Simulacra and Simulation\" - a collection of essays by the French postmodernist philosopher Jean Baudrillard. He opens it to the section \"on Nihilism\" (meaning nothing is truly known, etc.). \"Baudrillard's concept of simulation is the creation of the real through conceptual or 'mythological' models which have no connection or origin in reality. The model becomes the determinant of our perception of reality--the real.\" And Morpheus says, \"Welcome to the desert of the real,\" in Matrix 1. I'd say this book describes The Matrix to a tee. So this disc contains the key to the AI, and thus how to destroy the machines, so I think they'll use this info in Revolutions to ultimately destroy the machines, which means he'll have to go back to the nightclub and find the guy he gave it to.


Who is Seraph?
The reason Seraph (the chink guy Neo meets before meeting the Oracle) had golden code and was so spectacular is that he came from the first incarnation of the matrix, which was heaven. \"Seraph\" is singular for the plural \"seraphim\". The seraphim are the highest
choir of angels and included amongst others: Lucifer, Gabriele, Raziel and Malaciah, and they sit on the 8th level of Heaven just one below God. So Seraph will obviously have a big part in Revolutions, but whose side will he be on - the machines or the humans?? That is the question.

The Twins
They are exiled programs that emulate the human myth of ghosts as the Oracle explained. They are programs behaving badly. Persephone killed one of the Merovingian's bodyguards with a silver bullet because he was emulating a werewolf. So if the Twins could phase into
ghost form, why didn't he when his arm was trapped in the door of the garage? Was it because he was wounded or because he can't phase when
his arm is trapped? No of course not. The doors of that building, when shut, always led somewhere else (usually in the mountains) when opened again without the Keymaker's key. So if it were slammed shut due to the Twin phasing into ghost form, the Twin's arm would've ended up god knows where, but certainly not attached to the Twin's body.


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andrixnet
post Jan 24 2004, 12:53 AM
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[quote=Diana]Eu cred ca efectele speciale din Matrix n-ar fi fost nimic fara "geniala" idee pe care este bazat filmul. Imi aduc aminte prima data cand am vazut Matrix, dupa ce o buna bucata de vreme m-am intrebat unde vor sa ajunga, cand am aflat "ce este Matrix" si au aparut imaginile cu campul de oameni, am ramas cu gura cascata (la propriu). Ideea m-a surprins ea insasi, iar modul in care a fost realizat a dat un plus. Matrix a fost facut film deoarece sunt mult mai multi amatori de film decat de anime, impactul a fost mult mai profund.
[/quote]

Matrix a fost smaglit ca substrat din Ghost in the Shell (movie). Inclusiv tema cu caracterele verzi, curgatoare.
Dar "The matrix" a fost un film reusit. Incontestabil.
In timp ce George Lucas a avut un mare succes si a realizat foarte bine si celelalte filme din serie (cred ca am citit undeva ca vor fi 9 in total), celelalte 2 filme Matrix nu au fost decat o adaugire de pif-paf cu batai si explozii cel mult de calitatea a treia.
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SebyTheDragon
post Jan 24 2004, 03:22 PM
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Facem ce facem...si tot la Matrix ajungem...
O sa fie pana la urma cel mai vizionat film of all times...?? O sa fie...Asa ca ce mai conteaza..ca lui nea nuscare..nu ia placut...l-a vazut..a platit biletul..Atunci pa!!!
Dupa mine toata seria a fost un succes! Nus cea alea batai de mana a treia..poate ma ajutati voi sa inteleg...iar efectele..sa fim seriosi..daca nici matrix nu le are cat de cat bune...atunci cine draq...??? :roll:
In al doilea rand...Frati .au spus clar ca u fost influentati foarte mult de Manga si anime!! Sper ca nu mai tre sa amintesc lupa finala cu Smith!!
Oricum..chestia e ca ...e mult mai frumos ca te apuci si sa critici ..un film de talia lui Matrix(....care fie ca vreti sa recunoasteti...fie ca nu A AVUT SUCCES!!!) decat sa te apuci sa dai exemple de nus ce filme de care nu a auzit nici draq!!!
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^Dash^
post Jan 25 2004, 03:32 AM
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Hey what can i say..animatrix rulez....
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