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post Mar 16 2013, 04:04 PM
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elpreda



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I guess this VN is huge enough to warrant a topic of its own. Also I know there's at least 3 people on this forum who've read it. Nu am apucat sa-l termin, nu am citit 2 rute, dar il pot recomanda deja ca pe o cura de slabit daca nu pentru altceva, eu am slabit 3 kilograme in 2 zile cu Rewrite, desi cand m-am uitat in oglinda dupa aia aratam ca un zombie cu 5 feluri de cancer in faza terminala. Point is: not recommended to those who can't stop reading until they drop, like most VNs.

Incerc sa nu dau spoilere decat din ruta de care vorbesc.

[Chiyaha's route]
Only went through this one because it was needed for the more "advanced" Gaia route. Also it should be called Sakuya's route, not Chihaya's. While I can't call it bad, I found it quite weak compared to what I'd heard about Rewrite. An action/shounen fan would have probably enjoyed this a lot more. The "main" character of the route is pretty much a secondary character, there's hardly any development at all, you just train with an incredibly annoying bastard who turns out to be a good bastard and get into fights with your faithful sidekick alongside you. Oh and at the end you propose to someone out of nowhere and she even accepts, but you forget all about it a few days later. It felt like reading the common shallow action packed manga, and while I don't have anything against the genre itself I just expected more.


[Akane's route]
I'm not sure if disappointment is the word to use to describe this route despite the fact that reading it feels more like reading rezumatul unei povesti nu povestea propriu zisa, lack of sprites and huge holes like Chihaya and Sakuya vanishing from the story. That is because it has another bigger problem: the whole route feels like reading through a long bad end, it's simply discouraging. It brings one sided love to a whole new level. You continuously try to help her and get close to her and while she doesn't reject you she never comes to love or care for you, guilt and pity being the most you manage to get out of her. You just watch her suffer and drift away until she eventually betrays you and then goes completely insane. Seeing how pitiful she becomes made me almost want to stop reading it. The end doesn't really solve anything, it ends "well" just for the sake of it being a good ending ,but it makes no sense and offers no satisfaction at all.
How come I have to hate the route of my favourite character? This is just screwed up!


So far, nu am putut sa-mi formez o impresie prea buna fata de Rewrite, and seeing what they did to poor Akane I'm not sure I'll be able to change that. I think I'm going to go for Kotori route now and then Shizuru. I know Lucia's route is the one written by Ryukishi, but I simply don't like the character.


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post Mar 16 2013, 04:57 PM
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DmonHiro



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Pai... imi pare foarte rau sa te anunt, dar ai cam gresit ordinea. Am jucat roate rutele, si pot confirma eea ce a spus regizorul jocului: este FOARTE indicat sa joci intai ruta lui Kotori, si sa joci ruta lui Akane ULTIMA. Nu stiu ce ai inteles din ruta lui Akane fara sa fi cititi ruta lui Kotori si Shizuru. Doar in ruta lui Kotori ne explica ce este cu puterile lui Koutaru, de ce poate vedea pe Key, si multe alte chestii. Doar in ruta lui Shizuru intelegi ci se petrece cu Guardian si de ce vor sa ucida Key.
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post Mar 16 2013, 05:10 PM
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@elpreda
You kinda messed up the route order, but whatever

Well ,dupa cum probabil ai vazut, this is not your usual moe moe Key game. Things here are serious business. Acum ca ai citit deja cea mai happy ruta din joc (Chihaya) it's all downhill from there and despair abounds. Also, unlike other VNs you might have read, romance is a secondary thing.The whole presenting the setting and story are much more important than going on dates .

Anyway, despre ruta lui Akane, ea e considerata de majoritatea ca fiind cea mai bine scrisa dintre character routes, si tind sa fiu de acord. desi initial nu prea mi-a placut ruta lui Akane fiindca nu mi-a placut deloc de Gaia, dupa ce am reusit sa termin ruta si apoi am stat si am rumegat asupra ei, a ajuns sa imi placa mult mai mult decat initial. Mi s-a parut extraordinara mai ales partea de la sfarsit in "artificial future" and the whole living with guilt thing. It was just really good writing. Mi-a mai placut de Akane dupa ce i-am citit ruta? No, not really, dar desigur, nu imi mai placea de Akane de destula vreme, de cand aflasem ca she's a batshit insane cultist. Singura mea problema majora e faptul ca ruta e foarte plicitisitoare la mijloc and i just drags on and on.

Practic problemele pe care le-ai avut tu cu ruta lui Akane sunt lucruri pur subiective, probabil fiindca te asteptai la un tip de VN complet diferit. Dar cum am spus deja, this is not your usual Key game, asa ca trebuie sa arunci orice fel de astfel de preconceptii deoparte.

Daca nu ti-a placut ruta lui Akane, sunt sincer extraordinar de curios sa vad daca o sa iti placa Terra. As cam paria pe faptul ca o sa o urasti.


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post Mar 16 2013, 06:04 PM
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elpreda



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Hating something is not the same thing as not liking it (for me at least), it's loving it cu polarizare inversa. Cand e pe 0 e de rau.

You did warn me ca nu este the usual Key VN, but I was still surprised. Nu am citit inca rutele cu Guardian, but from the beginning I was a Gaia fan since they match with my own thinking and ideas, maybe it will change after I read through it all. Also, I have a thing for batshit insane people.

I wasn't aware there's an order to the routes, I just chose what I wanted and only found out later that you can only choose 3 routes in the beginning.

QUOTE
Daca nu ti-a placut ruta lui Akane, sunt sincer extraordinar de curios sa vad daca o sa iti placa Terra. As cam paria pe faptul ca o sa o urasti.

So you're telling me that after swimming all the way to the true end I'm probably gonna hate it. Great.


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Beatus vir qui suffert tentationem,
Quoniqm cum probates fuerit accipient coronam vitae.
Kyrie, ignis divine, eleison
O quam sancta, quam serena,
quam benigma, quam amoena
O castitatis lilium.
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post Mar 17 2013, 03:58 PM
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elpreda



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Kotori route finished. It was quite good, but seeing all these holes in the story left me with some measure of disappointment. Pentru un VN care se bazeaza pe mai mult decat romance faptul ca rutele se contrazic intre ele asa mult e... O mare parte din ce m-a atras la Higurashi de exemplu era cum fiecare chapter le explica pe celalate si era explicat de altele, cat de bine se legau intre ele.
The Key dies si in ruta lui Chihaya si a lui Akane, ba in a lui Akane moare si Kotori and you're perfectly fine, no wounds appearing out of nowhere. Now that I think about it, e destul de posibil ca Akane s-o fi omorat pe Kotori si in ruta lui Chihaya cand a luat cheia. Also, it is acceptable that your powers evolve differently in each route, but if you overuse them in Chihaya route you turn into a familiar yourself, in Akane's route you just lose them and no, it isn't because you killed the Key, ranile se vindeca si dupa aia, pierderea e treptata. Not to mention replacing Sakuya with a T-Rex.

Pana la urma nu conteaza in ce ordine le citesti, ba chiar e recomandat sa nu tii cont de ce ai invatat in celelalte rute, the setting can be considerably different in each one.


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Beatus vir qui suffert tentationem,
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post Mar 17 2013, 04:36 PM
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Actually, singurul care ar putea fi plothole aici e faptul ca ce se intampla la sfarsit cu Kotarou nu se intampla si in celelalte rute, si pentru chestia asta as putea sa creez o explicatie bazandu-ma pe informatii din rutele finale. Chestia cu diferenta dintre ce se intampla daca Kotarou abuzeaza puterile sale e legata de faptul ca Kotarou are doua puteri. El se transforma in familiar daca abuzeaza de puterea lui de rewriting, nu daca abuzeaza de aurora. Si da, cele doua puteri sunt complet unrelated una de alta. Also, nu inteleg care eproblema cu T-Rex-ul si Sakuya. T-Rex-ul e un familiar antic si foarte puternic pe care Gaia il au din timpuri imemoriale, in timp ce Sakuya, desi e considerat the strongest familiar, nu are in mod special vreun allegience fata de Gaia, ci doar fata de Chihaya. Daca Chihaya nu vrea sa mai fie in Gaia atunci nici Sakuya nu va mai fi parte din Gaia.

Daca vrei sa te plangi pe ceva care nu are sens, ar trebui sa te plangi de modul in care Kagari e prezentata la sfarsitul rutei lui Chihaya si care nu e deloc consistent cu toate informatiile care le avem despre ea in restul VN-ului. Si asta se intampla din cauza ca ruta lui Chihaya (ca si ruta lui Shizuru care e si ea posibil cea mai slaba ruta din tot VN) e scrisa de Tonokawa care poate fi considerat ciuma Key-ului si a carui talent la scris e 0.


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post Mar 17 2013, 05:29 PM
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In ruta ei Chihaya pleaca din Gaia datorita tie, si chiar daca ar renunta dintr-un alt motiv tot trebuia sa mai apara sau sa mai zica ceva de ea la inceputul rutei lui Akane. Also the world is ending, are she and Sakuya just sitting in a corner and waiting to die? Unde sunt Midou si ceilalti and are they seriously saying Krivoy Rog and Kilimanjaro are weaker than the T-Rex and just die off somewhere without you even knowing they exist?
Also, daca are 2 puteri separate de ce le pierde pe amandoua cand Kotori intrerupe contractul doar de la ribbon-ul lui Kagari? And how the hell can she even break off the contract without one of you dying? As I remember in Chihaya's route Tenma couldn't break the contract with Krivoy Rog and they both died because of it.
Oh and this isn't o diferenta intre rute, but... la sfarsitul rutei lui Chihaya a familiar the size of a mountain with the energy of several a power spots that continuously sucks insane amounts of energy from everything around him starts crumbling when healing a small stabbing wound in his owner... really...

I guess I'll just have to make do the Tonokawa plague reasoning.


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Beatus vir qui suffert tentationem,
Quoniqm cum probates fuerit accipient coronam vitae.
Kyrie, ignis divine, eleison
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post Mar 17 2013, 05:44 PM
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Yeah, just don't think about Chihaya's route too deeply. It's kind of a clusterfuck. The information you get about Sakuya is the only part that is actually important out of that whole route.

Also, stand si gandindu-ma putin mi-am dat seama ca de fapt, tehnic vorbind, nu o vedem pe Kotori murind in nici una din celelate rute in care moare cheia. In ruta lui Akane, salvation-ul nu a fost dus pana la sfarsit, asa ca Kotori, fiind druid, ar fi putut foarte bine sa fi supravietuit in perimetrul ei din padure. Asa ca e pana la urma posibil ca Kotarou sa fi supravietuit mortii cheii cu pretul de a consuma life energy-ul lui Kotori.


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post Mar 18 2013, 12:38 PM
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HAHAHA! Cum adica nu conteaza in ce oridine? Si cum adica sa ignori ce ei invatat din celelalte rute? Lol, stai sa ajungi tu la ruta Moon, si apoi sa vorbesti. Nu numai ca trebuie sa tii cont de ce ai invatat din celelalte rute, dar toate se intampla simulta, tehnic vobind. Si nu numai atat toate se unesc. Absolut nimic din ruta lui Kotori nu este plothole. Totul se leaga perfect cu ceea ce invati in celelalte rute. Nici una din cele 5 rute principale nu sunt paralele, sunt alternative.

Si, apropo, Fuego, Kilimajoaro si Krivoy Rog sunt cu MULT mai slabi decat T-Rex (nume real: Earth Dragon). Nici toti trei la un loc nu ar putea sa-l zgarie. In primul rand, nici nu poti sa MISTI T-Rex fara cel putin cateva zeci de summoneri experimentati, si probabil vor murii cu totii la sfarsit. Techinic vorbind, nici Sakuya nu ar putea sa infanga Earth Dragon. Dar Earth Dragon nu poate fi folosit pentru mai mult de cateva minute, pentru ca necesita atat de multa energie, incat cei care il utilizeaza mor extrem de repede. In ruta lui Akane, Kotarou nu l-a invins, dar a reusit sa supravietuiasca destul incat cei care ii dadeau energie au murit.

Motivul pentru care Midou nu apare decat in ruta lui Chihaya e simplu: doar in ruta ei esti aliat cu Gil & Pani, iar fara ei, nu poti sa ajungi in spatiul de sub scoala unde e Kilimajoaro, si nici nu ai de unde sa stii unde in padure e Midou fara Gil. Midou are o treaba cu tine doar pentru ca l-ai batut pe Krivov Rog. Cum in alte rute nu il infrangi, lui Midou nui pasa de tine, si probabil sunt toti facuti praf de Sakuya sau de Kishima.

QUOTE
And how the hell can she even break off the contract without one of you dying? As I remember in Chihaya's route Tenma couldn't break the contract with Krivoy Rog and they both died because of it.


Tenma nici nu a incercat sa anuleze contarctul. Si nu a spus nimeni ca trebuie sa moara cineva ca sa fie anulat contractul. In ruta lui Chihaya, Skuya anuleaza contracul ca sa aiba toate puterile, si apoi il face la loc.
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post Mar 18 2013, 12:51 PM
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QUOTE(DmonHiro @ Mar 18 2013, 01:38 PM)
Absolut nimic din ruta lui Kotori nu este plothole. Totul se leaga perfect cu ceea ce invati in celelalte rute.
*


Except for the ending. Dupa cum ziceam se pot specula explicatii care sa aiba sens si sa nu contrazica, dar sincer toate sunt putin fortate. Si de fiecare data cand intrebarea asta a aparut prin discutiile la care am participat pe internet, nimeni nu a reusit sa dea un raspuns care chiar sa fie satisfacator.

Also, apropo de plotholes, dupa cum am mai zis, modul in care Kagari e prezentata in ruta lui Chihaya e complet inconsistent cu ce aflam in toate celelate rute.


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post Mar 18 2013, 12:58 PM
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Te referi la faptul ca isi pierde puterea de a se rescrie la final?
Yeah, nu am o explicatie pentru asta. E singurul caz in care se intampla. Presupun ca atunci cand Kagari e distrusa, i-a luat puterile lui Kotarou.

Tehnici vorbind, toate variantele de Kagari sunt inconsistente in cele 5 rute principale. Iar cea din Terra este, teoretic, cea adevarata. Din cate am inteles, abilitatea mentala a lui Kagari se deterioreaza cut cat trece mai mult timp. Deaia in Terra este lucida, si un pic afurisita, dar macar are o personalitate. In restul, pare un pic defecta.

Kotori: Kagari nu vorbeste, se comporata ca un copil mic. Pare a fi cam rea.
Chihiaya: Karagi se comporta ca un copil, dar e mai nevinovata, si poate vorbi.
Shizuru: Nu prea stim. A aparut doar la final, si parea sa-i para rau ca lumea va fi distrusa.
Lucia: Nu apare.
Akane: Cam la fel ca la Shizuru.
Moon: Doesn't count. Not the same entity.
Terra: Cea adevarata (oarecum). Lucida, afurisita, si nu prea gandeste logic.
Oppai: Creamy Kagarin, 3rd planet from the magic.
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post Mar 18 2013, 01:18 PM
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Problema e ca in celelalte rute in afara de Terra, Earth Kagari nu ar trebui sa poata vorbi fiindca a fost tinuta captiv de catre Suzaki de cand a aparut si pana la scurt timp inainte sa inceapa common route-ul, ceea ce inseamna ca nu a avut cand sa absoarba cunostinte despre omenire si sa invete cum sa vorbeasca. Also, ceva ce eu sincer nu pot spune ca inteleg deloc e de ce Kagari nu a mai pornit salvation-ul in ruta lui Chihaya, tinand cont ce plot point important e oprirea salvation-ului, mai ales in Terra.


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post Mar 18 2013, 06:03 PM
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Shizuru's route is just so...weak. Parca citeam compunerea unui elev mediocru de gimnaziu. Leaving the plotholes aside, the difference in quality between route is enormous. In the end all it did was make me dislike Guardian even more.

Now I only have Ryukishi07's route and the true routes left, so hopefully I'll be able to read something decent. I may not have liked it for different reasons, but so far Akane's route is indeed cea mai bine scrisa, and Kotori's is reasonably good too.


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Quoniqm cum probates fuerit accipient coronam vitae.
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post Mar 18 2013, 07:18 PM
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QUOTE(elpreda @ Mar 18 2013, 07:03 PM)
In the end all it did was make me dislike Guardian even more.
*


Sincer nu inteleg cum ar fi asa ceva posibil dupa ruta lui Shizuru. Pe mine ending-ul rutei m-a facut pur si simplu sa detetest complet Gaia, parere care nu s-a schimbat deloc in momentul in care am citit rutele aferente Gaia si am aflat ca practic motivatia lor se poate rezuma la "Uram lumea asa ca vrem ca toti sa moara". Sincer, o organizate mai patetica si mai unlikable de atat nu am vazut pana acum. Factiunea lui Suzaki e practic singura parte din Gaia care chiar e rezonabila si likable, dar asta din cauza ca diverge complet de la doctrina de baza a gruparii.


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post Mar 18 2013, 10:26 PM
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And here's the kicker: Gaia este impartita in doua tabere: Kashima si Suzuki. Iat Akane e de partea lui Kishima. Iar Kishima este cea rea. Suzuki e chiar de treaba. Deci, da, Gaia este cea mai jalnica si patetica organizatie, dar din pacate, este si foarte puternica.

Dar sa nu cerzi ca Guardiar e mai presus. Desi telul lor este nobil (?), metodele lor sunt violente, si destul de barbare. Problema cu super-humans este ca sunt extrem de aroganti, impulsivi si violenti.
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post Mar 18 2013, 10:35 PM
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Telul lor e self preservation pentru omenire. Nothing more, nothing less. Desigur, e usor sa simpatizezi cu un astfel de tel si sa ti para nobil because we're also human. Also, cand ziceam ca imposibil sa urasti Guardian dupa ruta lui Shizuru, ma refeream la faptul ca sunt prezentati intr-o lumina extraordinar de idealizata in respectiva ruta. All the dirt on them is in the other routes.


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post Mar 19 2013, 08:55 PM
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Finally finished Lucia's route, phew it was long. This is where you see the overwhelming difference between a master and the rest. I had expected something great from Ryukishi07, maybe e pentru ca am citit cea mai slaba dintre rute inainte, but it was far better than I had hoped. Vad ca nu s-a putut abtine sa nu-l transforme intr-un Umineko spin-off and result was most impressive.

I see you guys are all against Kashima and Akane. You forget that both Suzaki si Guardian nu faceau decat sa amane moartea planetei, nu sa o evite and Akane was the only one trying to save it. Everyone was aware that humanity was killing the Earth and deserved to perish and Guardian didn't deny it either, they only cared about preserving their own lives no matter the cost, they would kill and destroy anything and anyone to ensure their survival and they would even call it righteous and noble. Also, unlike The Disciples who were acting upon a disease that ate at their mind and personality Guardian's cruelty was their own. In a sense the Holy Woman, who had watched over humanity for so long, was humanity's representative and had as much of a right as the Key to judge and condemn them.


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Beatus vir qui suffert tentationem,
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post Mar 19 2013, 09:45 PM
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QUOTE(elpreda @ Mar 19 2013, 09:55 PM)
I had expected something great from Ryukishi07, maybe e pentru ca am citit cea mai slaba dintre rute inainte, but it was far better than I had hoped.


It was pretty awesome. Too bad Kotarou turns into a complete idiot in the last part. Although it was worth it for that scene when he finally stops being a retard.

QUOTE(elpreda @ Mar 19 2013, 09:55 PM)
Akane was the only one trying to save it.


Except the fact that was definitely not her intention at all. The holy woman's goal is basically killing all humans (and even more if she could) because she is insane and hates everyone and everything. Also, salvation might not be as good for the planet as you might originally think as you will see later.

QUOTE(elpreda @ Mar 19 2013, 09:55 PM)
Everyone was aware that humanity was killing the Earth and deserved to perish


Yeah, about that... Keep on reading. The true message of the VN might be pretty different from what it seems to be at the point you're in.

QUOTE(elpreda @ Mar 19 2013, 09:55 PM)
so, unlike The Disciples who were acting upon a disease that ate at their mind and personality Guardian's cruelty was their own.


If you want to call the Holy Woman a disease then I'm all for it. That's definitely what she is. But the deal with the disciples is that they're basically people that are too mentally weak to live in society so because of that they want to destroy it. They're basically the ultimate emos.

QUOTE(elpreda @ Mar 19 2013, 09:55 PM)
they would kill and destroy anything and anyone to ensure their survival and they would even call it righteous and noble.


That's because survival of the species is a noble goal...as long as you're part of that species.

QUOTE(elpreda @ Mar 19 2013, 09:55 PM)
In a sense the Holy Woman, who had watched over humanity for so long, was humanity's representative and had as much of a right as the Key to judge and condemn them.


No she doesn't because she is completely insane. Also, you can't really compare what the Key has to do with what Kashima wants to do because, well, you'll find out at the right time. Keep reading.


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post Mar 20 2013, 04:24 AM
Post #19
elpreda



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Alright, went through the Moon route. It was... unexpected, though I most definitely enjoyed reading through all those theories. Most of them I was familiar with, but I still felt that after following that thought pattern I got a lvl up in INT.
So in the end totul se rezuma la 'The Earth failed, the Moon realized it cannot sustain life by herself so she decided to revive her twin and give her another chance.'
Anyway, now I see why you hate Kashima and dude she is way too OP. Screw talent, how the hell is she capable of overpowering an entire planet? And why create an army of small and mediums when a few heavies (Earth Dragons), maybe even one could have easily done the job, that is besides not ending the story?
Still, now I know for sure that Akane's and the Holy Woman's objective was to save the world since they did fight to protect it, the desire to destroy life itself was specific to Kashima Sakura only.

Ah, I'm nearing the end and I'm already starting to get withdrawal symptoms, what do I do...


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post Mar 20 2013, 10:10 AM
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Pai, toate creaturile pe care Kashima le trimitea pe luna trebuiau create din ceva, adica din colectia imensa de fosile pe care o avea. Nu avea insa nimic din ce sa creeze un Earth Dragon.
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